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Evict us, we minify!
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26 Responses to “We’ve Said It Before and We’ll Say It Again”
So what is next?
What’s next? We organize. Turn occupy passion toward real political, economic, electoral changes
Lots of opportunities to act locally on these vast national problems
See, eg, ma legislature bill to end citizens united.
Can you imagine occupying the state house and passing this?
I can fully imagine a lot more being accomplished if the camp were outside the statehouse on the common vs Dewey square.
.
The battle is with the politicians, not those that have curried their favor and will continue to do so until the LAWS are changed.
Looks like they did. How much of Occupy’s time was spent defending the camp, as opposed to trying to get the issues to the public?
And, what, at the end of the day, was the idea that could not be evicted?
I’ll make it really really simple – ‘Basic Fairness’ for working and trying to work people.
HOW, MANY, TIMES does the Occupy Movement have to answer the “What is your message?” question?
Answer: FOLLOW THE MONEY!
The simple fact that EVERY, seemingly separate cause or protest can be easily traced to the greed of big business proves that corporations have permeated every aspect of our society! It is the ONLY goal of publicly traded corporations (Wall Street) to exploit any and every method of profit making available to make money for their shareholders. There is a limit to how far this philosophy can be taken, if left unchecked, every person will be forced to face their own limit as wealth becomes more and more centralized. The protesters at Occupy have reached their collective limit. What has to be taken from you before you speak up?
@Barry,
Seriously? You think they evicted the idea? Either you’re a troll or you’re, apparently, not intellectually capable of understanding the answers to your own questions. Either way, I feel sorry for you but, for the record:
The camp is/was a symbol of the idea and of the movement toward the realization of the idea– a place for the idea to gain a foothold. The idea is, simply put, “government of the people, by the people, for the people.” And, by the way, the “day” is not ended yet. Do you *not know* that or do you think we are stupid enough to believe something is true because you said it?
Not at troll. The problem as I see it is that you focused so much of your energy on the encampment that you didn’t spend the time necessary to come up with a clear message, and your antics at Dewey Square diverted attention from the core issues.
You folks are sounding increasingly angry, which makes me think that you’re aware that you haven’t accomplished your goals. Stating that you’re beginning an “ongoing conversation” about the issues means that you need to be able to, well, have a conversation. Who are you going to talk to? Yourselves? You need popular support, and you do not appear to have it.
You were evicted. Now you need to find some way to get attention, which means protesting like literally hundreds of movements before you. Read some history, try to focus on better communication, and do not waste your effort on building an artificial community in a public park.
What is next? Rally at 7pm tonight at Boston Common bandstand! OWS has an indoor office headquarters now, they are not gone- we will continue as well even without the Dewey Square camp.
Barry, you say “looks like they did” [evict an idea]- nope, they evicted people from Dewey Square. Then you ask what the idea was that could not be evicted, thereby contradicting your first statement. If you don’t know what the “idea” is by now, you’re not paying attention, and clearly just here to harass. Read the message here on the OB website- no need for me to cut and paste it for you.
Lovett –
I’ve followed Occupy Boston since the beginning, been down on the square several times. Wrote the mayor asking that they treat you guys well.
But from what I can see:
1) You did get evicted;
2) Most of the people – e.g. the 99% you claim to represent – have no clue what you actually stand for. And quite honestly, I don’t think you guys have a clue yourselves;
3) So much of Occupy Boston’s effort was spent establishing camping protocol, dealing with camping issues, fighting with attorneys, internal financial issues, etc. that you lost focus on the financial and political problems facing the country;
4) People saw the campsite and they didn’t see a Glorious New Future. They saw squalor, they saw a ripped up greenway, they smelled the pot wafting overhead. They saw you guys on Thursday hopping up and down in joyous dance, looking like a bunch of stoned kids. Politics is about symbols, and Jesus, you guys have given the right wing all that they could have asked for for the upcoming campaign;
5) If you cannot clearly write down the idea, if people have to “look it up” after two months, you have a serious messaging problem.
Barry-
My sentiments exactly. I am here on this website trying to understand what the “idea” is. And I’m leaving it still not knowing. It’s too bad the commitment of OB couldn’t be channeled into one or two real ideas and action for creating change (not just camping).
The serious messaging problem that you recognize is not solved with clearly writing down the idea. There is a significant percentage of people that literally do not have time to be involved or even informed. Another significant percentage of people have as their strategy to never allow others to know their political beliefs. A third significant percentage will not yet allow themselves to have hope that Equality and Justice are even possible.
The time has come for the dynamics of this movement to succeed, because technology has reached the point where truth can be uncovered, and the number of people suffering has reached the tipping point.
Gee “Barry,”
First, thanks for *caring* enough about OB to write to the mayor on their behalf. Gee, such sincerety and good will. Funny that you would care so much without actually understanding the primary message of the general OWS movement???
At this time, I would like to call you out on your BS, and thereby, encourage other REAL OWS supporters to stop wasting their time responding to you bogus time wasting comments.
Just because OB (or O-xyz) doesn’t have adequate resources or savvy to compete with (successful and increasingly dangerous) world-wide CORPORATE fascism, doesn’t mean that their (anti-fascist, anti-greed)message is not a bulls-eye.
Suggesting that you don’t “get it” is disingenuous at best.
To the contrary, it is YOUR motive that is the only thing that I see as muddy and unclear, not unlike the corporate problem… (until you expose yourself by trying to hinder an obviously massive call for and end to the madness.)
So, let’s all just continue playing the corporate game, and see if we can’t eliminate every possible opportunity for our kids. Good move guy.
But really, it doesn’t matter, because your comments are a net zero result. You’re not fixing the problem, which means the movement has no where to go but up (increasing in size – based on further victims of crime, greed, fascism). And, of course, your stated *confusion* is not helping the OB cause.
If you would instead lend your comments to facilitating the end of the problem, your kids, and a free world, will have more genuine, legal opportunities at a career, and life, in the future. At least you still have a choice in that. (Though it may not be that way for long, if things continue unchanged… )
And how did your efforts help? Look at the reality – one of the few people who can actually accomplish something in regulating the financial sector is now stuck with pictures of a bunch of kids wrecking the park. Congrats.
You’ve been in your own echo chamber for far too long. You’re believing your own hype. At most Occupy Boston had what, 2,000 people on site at a time? Out of a metropolitan area of 4 million?
Believe it or not, kids, there are other ways to affect change than building a tent city.
What is the “idea”? It’s been almost 3 months and I just don’t understand what Occupy is trying to accomplish at the end of the day. I came to this site trying to figure it out and I read this in the FAQ: “Most people who support Occupy Boston call for reforming Wall Street and removing special interest from government, but there no one single issue or demand that summarizes our movement. People are dissatisfied with how our country is being run and want fundamental, lasting change of many kinds.”
I’m not against Occupy and I’m not trying to make light of the fact that so many people have dedicated the last few months to Occupy, but it just seems a shame that this energy and commitment couldn’t be channeled into one or two ideas in order to actually accomplish something and create the change instead of just sitting around and saying you want “lasting change of many kinds.” More people might support the “idea” and the movement if they knew what it was!
What is the “idea”? What is the purpose of Occupy? It’s been almost 3 months and I just don’t understand what Occupy is trying to accomplish at the end of the day. I came to this site trying to figure it out and I read this in the FAQ: “Most people who support Occupy Boston call for reforming Wall Street and removing special interest from government, but there no one single issue or demand that summarizes our movement. People are dissatisfied with how our country is being run and want fundamental, lasting change of many kinds.”
I’m not against Occupy and I’m not trying to make light of the fact that so many people have dedicated the last few months to Occupy, but it just seems a shame that this energy and commitment couldn’t be channeled into one or two ideas in order to actually accomplish something and create the change instead of just sitting around and saying you want “lasting change of many kinds.” More people might support the “idea” and the movement if they knew what it was!
Yes, are you dead, dumb, and blind for God’s sake.. Can’t see the elephant in the room, huh?
I think Barry brings up some good points. The Occupy movement now seems to be solely about how many trespassing violations can collected in various cities.
If the idea is anti-corporate greed, and reclaiming our independence from and existence of forced indentured servitude, I really don’t see how camping in a public park advances us towards that end. Mind you, the Occupiers are knowing in direct violation of the law, as well, giving the police every right to go in and throw them out. At least apply for a permit, or occupy a campground, something that can’t be immediately shut down.
Or, better yet, why not occupy something that actually, you know, has a ramification. Like a freeway, or a busy shopping area, anything that might actually cause a disturbance. Yea, if you got arrested, it might be more than a trespassing violation, but, as it stands, the Occupy movement seems to be raging against people that like going to parks that aren’t shanty towns.
Barry – Maybe the problem is not with the message sender, but the receiver. It would not matter how many times you went to the occupy camp if you were closed minded and judgmental. Try opening your mind and heart. Growing compassion and wisdom will benefit you in the end.
When the same question is being asked by many people, the problem is with the sender.
Occupy needs to refine its message. It was blurred by the focus on the camp, which meant NOTHING to the rest of the 99%. Focus on the issues, define the issues, and propose some workable solutions that the 99% can get behind.
“2) Most of the people – e.g. the 99% you claim to represent – have no clue what you actually stand for. And quite honestly, I don’t think you guys have a clue yourselves;”
Inequality and the distribution of wealth from the 99% and the 1%.
That wasn’t so hard to find or even figure out if you cared at all.
I have asked several members of the occupy movement exactly what they are protesting and got nothing but vague answers. The few that gave me a detailed answer have stated that its not fair that the owners of Walmart make millions of dollars for doing nothing and they make little money working at McDonalds. The occupy movement is a joke, they compare themselves to protesters of the 60’s which is a slap in the face to anyone that protested the issues of the 60’s. The entire occupy movement is a bunch of misguided disillusioned cry babies wanting that which they have not earned.
Lovett, that’s ok i’ll do it for you. Barry, look this over and give us then your feedback. Lovett is right, you have not been paying attention Barry. Too many people are still paying too little attention. The idea is clear and the idea has power. An idea can build civilization and an idea can destroy civilization. What part of the OWS idea do you not understand? Some of it or all of it?
Declaration of the Occupation of New York City
This document was accepted by the NYC General Assembly on September 29, 2011
Translations: French, Slovak, Spanish, German, Italian, Arabic, Portuguese [all translations »]
——————————————————————————–
As we gather together in solidarity to express a feeling of mass injustice, we must not lose sight of what brought us together. We write so that all people who feel wronged by the corporate forces of the world can know that we are your allies.
As one people, united, we acknowledge the reality: that the future of the human race requires the cooperation of its members; that our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their neighbors; that a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people and the Earth; and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power. We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known.
They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage.
They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give Executives exorbitant bonuses.
They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in the workplace based on age, the color of one’s skin, sex, gender identity and sexual orientation.
They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization.
They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless animals, and actively hide these practices.
They have continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate for better pay and safer working conditions.
They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right.
They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut workers’ healthcare and pay.
They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people, with none of the culpability or responsibility.
They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams that look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance.
They have sold our privacy as a commodity.
They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press.
They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products endangering lives in pursuit of profit.
They determine economic policy, despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce.
They have donated large sums of money to politicians, who are responsible for regulating them.
They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil.
They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives or provide relief in order to protect investments that have already turned a substantial profit.
They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty bookkeeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit.
They purposefully keep people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media.
They have accepted private contracts to murder prisoners even when presented with serious doubts about their guilt.
They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad.
They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas.
They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts.*
To the people of the world,
We, the New York City General Assembly occupying Wall Street in Liberty Square, urge you to assert your power.
Exercise your right to peaceably assemble; occupy public space; create a process to address the problems we face, and generate solutions accessible to everyone.
To all communities that take action and form groups in the spirit of direct democracy, we offer support, documentation, and all of the resources at our disposal.
Join us and make your voices heard!
*These grievances are not all-inclusive.
We also have a visual representation of this document from the Arts and Culture Group and the Call to Action Working Group. To download your own copy of this image as a jpeg (12.7 MB), click here, or for image inquiries e-mail flowchartart@gmail.com.
I agree with all of that statement. Now you need to actively, actively promulgate the various points. Focus on those points, and you can make a difference.
When the movement succeeds enough to shut-up the troglodites, right-winger cranks, and internet ops spooks posing as posters then you’ll understand what it’s all about. Let that be its definition and purpose and let those who question it have no lack of understanding afterwards…
Ok all of you: Barry, JoeBlow, Matthew, Heather, Curious Joe, Melissa listen up. My previous post on the 10th 8:50 p.m. says it pretty clearr so maybe you need to read it through… maybe several times if you don’t get it the first time. The message was sounded ove 2 months ago September 29 in NYC with that proclamation…so here we go again. Barry we need your feedback still. It was requested earlier. Are you still with us on this?
Declaration of the Occupation of New York City
This document was accepted by the NYC General Assembly on September 29, 2011
Translations: French, Slovak, Spanish, German, Italian, Arabic, Portuguese [all translations »]
——————————————————————————–
As we gather together in solidarity to express a feeling of mass injustice, we must not lose sight of what brought us together. We write so that all people who feel wronged by the corporate forces of the world can know that we are your allies.
As one people, united, we acknowledge the reality: that the future of the human race requires the cooperation of its members; that our system must protect our rights, and upon corruption of that system, it is up to the individuals to protect their own rights, and those of their neighbors; that a democratic government derives its just power from the people, but corporations do not seek consent to extract wealth from the people and the Earth; and that no true democracy is attainable when the process is determined by economic power. We come to you at a time when corporations, which place profit over people, self-interest over justice, and oppression over equality, run our governments. We have peaceably assembled here, as is our right, to let these facts be known.
They have taken our houses through an illegal foreclosure process, despite not having the original mortgage.
They have taken bailouts from taxpayers with impunity, and continue to give Executives exorbitant bonuses.
They have perpetuated inequality and discrimination in the workplace based on age, the color of one’s skin, sex, gender identity and sexual orientation.
They have poisoned the food supply through negligence, and undermined the farming system through monopolization.
They have profited off of the torture, confinement, and cruel treatment of countless animals, and actively hide these practices.
They have continuously sought to strip employees of the right to negotiate for better pay and safer working conditions.
They have held students hostage with tens of thousands of dollars of debt on education, which is itself a human right.
They have consistently outsourced labor and used that outsourcing as leverage to cut workers’ healthcare and pay.
They have influenced the courts to achieve the same rights as people, with none of the culpability or responsibility.
They have spent millions of dollars on legal teams that look for ways to get them out of contracts in regards to health insurance.
They have sold our privacy as a commodity.
They have used the military and police force to prevent freedom of the press.
They have deliberately declined to recall faulty products endangering lives in pursuit of profit.
They determine economic policy, despite the catastrophic failures their policies have produced and continue to produce.
They have donated large sums of money to politicians, who are responsible for regulating them.
They continue to block alternate forms of energy to keep us dependent on oil.
They continue to block generic forms of medicine that could save people’s lives or provide relief in order to protect investments that have already turned a substantial profit.
They have purposely covered up oil spills, accidents, faulty bookkeeping, and inactive ingredients in pursuit of profit.
They purposefully keep people misinformed and fearful through their control of the media.
They have accepted private contracts to murder prisoners even when presented with serious doubts about their guilt.
They have perpetuated colonialism at home and abroad.
They have participated in the torture and murder of innocent civilians overseas.
They continue to create weapons of mass destruction in order to receive government contracts.*
To the people of the world,
We, the New York City General Assembly occupying Wall Street in Liberty Square, urge you to assert your power.
Exercise your right to peaceably assemble; occupy public space; create a process to address the problems we face, and generate solutions accessible to everyone.
To all communities that take action and form groups in the spirit of direct democracy, we offer support, documentation, and all of the resources at our disposal.
Join us and make your voices heard!
*These grievances are not all-inclusive.
We also have a visual representation of this document from the Arts and Culture Group and the Call to Action Working Group. To download your own copy of this image as a jpeg (12.7 MB), click here, or for image inquiries e-mail flowchartart@gmail.com.